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F1
crosses – Pure Breed to Pure Breed (my experiences)
Recent posts on the old Boardogs forum relating to F1
crossbreeds and preferred crosses and subsequently what would be
the ideal cross has prompted me to add my 2 cents worth.
In my early dog hunting days, 30 years ago a lot of people were
still developing their breeds, and experimenting with various
combinations, but most people were still using pure bred dogs on
at least one side when breeding. These days that practice is
very rare indeed, with various styles and types developed over
the years being bred to each other.
From my experience due to high pig numbers most people
concentrated on holding type dogs and English Bull Terriers were
the main ingredients. But most of the crosses were either F1
crosses, pure to an F1 cross or two F1’s crossed to each other
such as EBT/Boxer cross EBT/Cattle.
A few local hunters used to run the pure EBT’s, one of these
blokes is still alive and I often have some interesting
discussions on the old style Bullys compared to the current
styles. The older dogs I was exposed to had larger heads,
the Roman nose not as pronounced as it is today and they were a
lot bigger over all. These dogs still exist today but are hard
to locate. These blokes used to hunt the watercourse country
near Moree NSW and used to catch good numbers of pigs, a lot of
which were large boars, purely because of numbers.
Pitbulls were unheard of during this period, but the old Bully
could certainly hold, and most of the cross breeds I hunted with
had a fair nose, the only problem I could see with them was
their speed. Early breeders’ added cattle dog to smarten them up
a bit and make them a little quicker. A well bred Bully cattle
could hold his head up in any top team of pig hunting dogs, and
were the mainstay of many tried and proven teams. They did like
a bit of a blue though and like most bull crosses, took some
separating and the cattle blood made some of them very cagey and
sneaky, keeping you on your toes as a fight could start out of
nowhere.
Just prior to my interest in dogs, boxer blood had been added,
and these crosses had their staunch supporters. One of the
earliest breeders in my area of this particular cross added
boxer for a little more leg, plus he also liked the look of the
resultant Bully/Boxer head. Depending on what was used as the
bitch a different style head was thrown in the majority of
cases. A Bully bitch and boxer dog tended to throw more towards
the Bully style, whereas with a boxer bitch you tended to get a
more dominate stop and squarer head. The pug face of the boxer
was lost in most cases, but the under/over shot jaws remained in
most of the offspring. This seemed to be more prevalent in the
litters from the boxer bitches. This particular bloke ended up
with a line bred out of a red cattle bitch and a Bully/Boxer
dog, and used these till the day of his retirement.
Around the mid to late 70’s the more exotic breeds started to
show up, Wolfhounds, Bull Mastiffs, English Mastiffs,
Rottweilers, Great Danes etc and at this time the Bull Arab also
put in its first appearance. These pure bred dogs may have been
around for some time prior to this, I am not sure but it was
around this period they started to appear as cross bred pig
dogs. This was still the time when holding power was the main
driver, and it was reasoned that the larger bull headed dogs
would add a lot more power to their hunting teams, and no one
could argue that they didn’t.
The modern day pig dog was now in its infancy and would
eventually all but decimate the old style Bully crosses. A few
of the diehards continued on with their tried and proven lines,
they continued to catch pigs but the lure of the big square
heads, huge dogs and immense power soon depleted the market for
their pups and eventually these old style dogs were all but
gone. The newer styles of dogs had a bit more to offer in most
peoples minds, even if it was only owning the biggest boof
headed dog in the town, they loved ‘em.
I was drawn into the large dog syndrome and owned many over the
years, my current line still carries blood from a number of
larger breeds, but eventually my focus was only on dogs that
delivered, and I suppose the table was turned, although not F1
crosses like the Bully/Boxers, the size in my working dogs
reduced to around 35kgs, which in my mind is an ideal working
weight for an Australian pig dog. I Think the early breeders had
the size nailed but just didn’t realise they had it. My focus
turned from holding dogs to a more versatile all round dog that
could find, run on and hold when needed. The big driver here was
the development of the wild game market, the more pigs you could
catch the more cash in the pocket.
The decline in pig numbers (contrary to the belief of a few
government agencies) has seen the need to develop specialist
finders. These dogs have always been around but it is getting
more apparent now that if you want to catch good numbers or even
a pig in some cases, you need a top rate finder. I think trying
to get a proven finding line happening you need more than an F1
cross to succeed. You may have success with some of the
pointers, but my experience is that success is very much hit and
miss with these crosses. Don’t get me wrong there are some top
pointer crosses out there, but they are hard to breed
consistently and maybe one of the pure breeds of pointer may be
a better option.
Using hound blood as part of an F1 program will give you the
same results, dogs that will travel too far and voice on the
trail, hence alerting any game with miles of the hunters
approach.
I guess what I am trying to say is that you need more than an F1
cross these days to consistently get numbers, unless you are
lucky enough to live in the far North of Australia or other
isolated areas where hunting pressure hasn’t decimated numbers
or the need for water stacks the odds in the favour of the
hunters. If you are running F1 crosses I feel you will need to
have other dogs as part of your team to fill in a few gaps in
most cases.
When trying to consider the ideal F1 cross or to use it as a
starting point to develop a new line or type, the only thing I
am sure of would be bull blood, my preference is the EBT. I feel
they are a bit more stable than the other options, they tend to
throw a bigger cross than a pit, are closer to an ideal weight
than a Bullmastiff etc.
My idea would be to use an established line and then cross a
pure back into that line. Old Doug Mummery, who I respected very
much and learnt a lot from, advised me to add pure blood every
third cross to stabilise the line. I think he had a valid point
and he used to do it when breeding his own hunting dogs.
OK, I have decided on the English bull as a starter, not sure
where from here but I will discuss a few crosses I have owned or
hunted with.
Let’s start with the English Bull Terrier. Most have a
reasonable nose, devoted, loyal a pleasure to own if you only
have one dog. They can be a handful if you have more dogs and
need to be watched closely. Once they have a set on a particular
dog they pursue it with a passion. They add a lot of value to
any cross breeding program, and are my preferred option for
adding the bull component.
Boxer. Most pure bred boxers will find and catch a pig,
they are extremely hard dogs and most tend to cover a lot of
ground and will find both on and off the truck. Once again a
good breed for any cross breeding program. My mates and I used
Bully boxers for years; all up I have hunted with about 20
cross bred boxers. The best of these was a Boxer/Stag cross. He
could catch hares and he would hit pigs that hard it was not
uncommon for the pigs to be knocked over. First cross boxers
tend to lose their teeth after 2 or 3 years. The period will
vary depending on the amount of work they get. Teeth tend to
break off and in a lot of cases multiple teeth attached to a
part of the jaw will also break off. Another problem I have
encountered with boxers is some have a tendency to collapse,
they just keel over, will lay there for 5 or 10 minutes, get up
and continue an as if nothing has happened. 3 boxer crosses I
hunted with would do this, but I have no idea why.
Great Dane. They bring a good nose, size as well as leg;
they look good come in some attractive colours. But, like any
breed, there are good and bad lines. Some are very timid and shy
to the point of being aggressive. They cross very well with
Bullys, Bullmastiffs etc but I think second or 3rd crosses are
better than the F1. The pure version can be hunted with good
success, but are at a disadvantage if heavy cover purely because
of their size. Overheating is also prevalent in the pure and
cross bred versions, and it is necessary to keep the water up to
them.
Rottweiler. Not a common breed
in pig hunting circles, a lot of hunters will have a bit of a
chuckle about using the Rottie. I have hunted with 2 pure bred
dogs, and a couple of crosses. All were good honest dogs, with
the pure dogs probably being my pick for a pure bred pig dog.
They have a top nose, plenty of weight and will not let go. The
male I owned was used to find roos in long grass when shooting
pet food, and any pigs we came across were never any drama
regardless of size.
I bred two litters of F1 crosses using Rottie to EBT. They were
good sized dogs, lots of hunt and bloody hard, probably a little
too hard for me but they would find and hang, no matter what. An
unusual thing when crossing the Rottie is that nearly all the
pups will be red, it is very rare to get a black and tan.
Downside is heat; they need a lot of water but no more than
other large dogs. They are definitely worth considering in any
pig dog mix.
Bullmastiff. Again good nose, if looking for a big dog
they throw impressive pups. Pure dogs will hold a bull out to
piss, but are bit to slow and heavy to keep working all day..
They are one of the more common crosses these days. They have a
reasonable nose, heat again is a problem and need a constant
supply of water.
English Mastiff. Big, huge head and tend to throw pups
that are more agile than the Bullmastiff crosses. If using a
Mastiff breed I would favour the English. I haven’t been exposed
to the other mastiff breeds but hear good reports from the like
of Brazilian Mastiff etc. Definitely, better crossed, the pure
dogs are just too big. Old Doug Mummery used F1 EBT/English
Mastiffs as his main stud dogs for years and they constantly
threw good dogs. They were especially good crossed with running
dogs.
Greyhounds. Used a couple in their pure form, but the
ones I had were very soft. I saw them used on fox and roo, the
pure bred dogs were only good for a few runs, they tended to
burn out quickly. The old rough haired stags would still be
going long after the greyhounds had chucked in the towel. A mate
had an early Bull Arab with a lot of GH blood, this dog was very
thin skinned and would start bleeding after hunting sorghum
stubble etc, just from the scratches. He was a tough dog but
just seemed to get opened up a bit easier than the other breeds.
Overheating seems to be a problem with GH crosses also, so you
need to be careful when working them in the heat. However
crossed correctly they will make a top rate pig dog that most
hunters would be happy with. To closely bred to the GH however
will tend to give you dogs that bite the legs as opposed to the
head, you need to add more bull blood to stop that. If you hunt
in areas of extreme heat, regardless of how good they look,
crosses with a lot of Greyhound blood are best left for the
colder climates. If you are
looking for stamina in your dogs, avoid these crosses, as they
were not bred with this trait in mind, although
Greyhounds are extremely fast, they
are not high-energy dogs.
Working dogs (cattle/kelpie/border collies). Most make
good finder bailer types. They add brains to any cross, seem
immune to overheating and are very busy dogs. You see these dogs
working stock behind horses or bikes all day and they just seem
to keep going. I used a kelpie/cattle cross years ago that was a
handy dog. I think if added to a breeding program correctly they
would turn out some top dogs with the ability to handle the
harsh conditions in Australia. I would use a dog from a proven
working line though.
Pit bulls. I have owned a couple, unfortunately the ones
I had didn’t mind a bit of a blue. They would hold, reasonable
nose but tended to grab the first pig they came to. I have seen
them crossed and some of the crosses were top dogs. Probably a
better option these days than the EBT but from my experience
they tend to throw smaller pups than the EBT.
Probably the biggest downside to the breed is the negative press
they generate, and they are banned in some areas of Australia.
Not the breeds fault, just irresponsible owners, but
unfortunately pig hunting will get buried in the crap that goes
along with the negative press. If you can contain the dogs and
look after them properly they make a one stop pig dog for the
hunter that just wants a dog to go out with and catch a pig.
Foxhounds. Pure form no go, to noisy and hunt too far.
Crossed they are a good proposition and are better suited to
breeding finders as opposed to pointers in my mind. They bring a
top nose and heaps of hunt and stamina to any cross. Getting the
right % of hound in a cross is the challenge. My current line
has the hound nose, diluted a lot but enough to keep the hunt in
the dogs.
Deerhounds. From my experience the most consistent cross
for running dogs. They add a relaxed temperament, speed,
stamina, unreal eyesight and believe it or not, good nose. The
majority of my top producing dogs carried a large percentage of
Deerhound. But, like most pure breeds these days, do the
research and make sure the pups you buy come from a proven
working line. Nail the right line and look out pigs, here they
come, and you won't shake them off. They tend to be a bit aloof,
prefer to do their own thing, but are loyal to the bone, love to
be close to the boss and above all they love to hunt. Basically
low maintenance, cheap to run but can they deliver, you bet.
Ian Colley
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